Speaker 1 00:00:00 Welcome to another episode of the Anxiety Podcast. I have Ryan, Primer and Grandma with me today, and what I love about Ryan is so real. He she talks about anxiety, how it affects him. he has many, many followers on Instagram and I think they really just resonate with his authenticity and the truth of just suffering with anxiety. You know, I try and give some of my vulnerability as well, but I have to sort of maintain this kind of doctor appearance that I have. But sometimes I've been in points in my life where anxiety has just about killed me. And I know, when Ryan speaks from where he comes, that I have been there myself and a lot of us have with anxiety, it has taken us to the wall. So Ryan and Grandma, thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 2 00:00:50 Of course, Doctor Ross. Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 00:00:53 Yeah. So, Ryan, why do you do this work?
Speaker 2 00:00:56 Well, it started with me wanting first off to help people. and, because I've always, I always wanted to feel like I wasn't alone when I was dealing with addiction and anxiety and all those things.
Speaker 2 00:01:12 And so that's that's the first main part. I want people to know they're not alone. And then continuing to do it. It helps keep me going now. It helps even with my because, I mean, I still struggle daily with anxiety. And I got anxiety right now. Of course. Of course.
Speaker 3 00:01:33 You know. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 00:01:34 I was I was telling grandma before I got on here, I was like, I'm anxious and it helps keep me going. You know, we're all human. And seeing other people struggle with me, knowing we are all human and we can fight through it together. That's what helps me continue to make the content that I do.
Speaker 1 00:01:53 Yeah. And I think too, it's like for so long my anxiety made me feel weak. Week, you know, and I think and what I did for that was I kind of doubled down on putting myself through challenges, which, you know, I often say that that med school was the best thing that happened to me and the worst thing that happened to me because I, I pushed myself through medical school because I thought that if I could make it through medical school, I wasn't going to be schizophrenic and bipolar like my father now I wasn't, but but I gave myself a pretty whopping anxiety disorder, forcing myself into corners to try and prove to myself that that I could get out of them.
Speaker 1 00:02:37 And to some extent, I still kind of do that, but it's much more measured now. Like I take on my challenges that are much more measured. But I think initially it was just challenging myself to get through med school because I thought if you get through med school, it proves you're not schizophrenic or bipolar like your dad. And that's not the greatest. That's not the greatest motivation to go through medical school. And, I mean, it did work. It did work for sure. on some level, it got me through. But I, you know, I constantly felt weak. It just makes you feel like you're just not, in charge of your life. And I don't know if anybody's really in charge of their life, but. But, you know, it just it just makes you feel weak. And then there's the stigma that goes along with anxiety, depression, all this kind of stuff. And I think that's what you do best is like, you just show people in a very real way, like, hey, this is me.
Speaker 1 00:03:28 This is what's going on with me today.
Speaker 2 00:03:30 Yeah. And and that's and that's what the people always ask me, how do I choose the video I'm going to post at the end of the night? Because I usually do like a calm down video. And honestly, it's how I'm feeling. And sometimes I started saying that in my videos. And some of them it's just I need to hear this. So you might need to hear this and speaking it into existence, you know, and it comes in waves for people like us. And over the past few months, I mean, I've been. I mean, I've been having better weeks now, but, like, like you mentioned eye contact and the the social anxiety, like avoiding avoiding stores that you already had a panic attack in. And then it's like you got to fight through the fear now. Like, I, like, go to the grocery store, sit there, be like, you had an anxiety attack in there last week, and then you're like, but I but you gotta force yourself to go in like you need to go in.
Speaker 1 00:04:29 I think that's the thing is, is like, can we find this sort of benevolent, attitude towards ourselves saying, hey, you know what I know? Last week we had an anxiety attack in there. but I'm with you. You like. Like we'll go in together, you know, talking to yourself, like we'll do this together. Because I think so often when we try to fight it, we just basically rev up that survival physiology that actually makes makes us panicked in the first place. If there's anything that I've found about in in my own anxiety. It's finding the younger version of me that I call rusty, and being able to connect with him and say, I know you're scared. I know you're frightened of this particular thing. I used to be dreadfully afraid of flying, horribly afraid of flying. And now I've done it so often, I've kind of lost that fear a little bit. But I do find with my my anxious people is that if we can develop this benevolent connection with specifically with the younger version of us, you know, and I like I call mine rusty, you know, that was his nickname when, when we were younger.
Speaker 1 00:05:34 my nickname when I was younger. So, so I kind of addressed that in this sort of benevolent way rather than saying, look, we got to do this. We got to. I mean, there's points where you have to do that, but I just find it's just I have this this chapter in my book that says carrot and stick, you know, and so much of my life I hit myself with a stick to try and, you know, to, to try and get myself to go forward. Rather than just enticing myself with carrots. So I tell people it's like, okay, when you get in this situation, how can you give yourself a carrot?
Speaker 2 00:06:05 How can you give yourself a carrot? I like that.
Speaker 1 00:06:07 And it's just being kind to you. It's because when you are kind to yourself, you do shut off a lot of those survival like cortisol, adrenaline, norepinephrine, all this kind of stuff. When you're kind to yourself, you do shut off that. And it's kind of like if you had a child come up to you in a store that lost their parents and they had their hands up to you and they were crying, it's like you would pick them up and soothe them.
Speaker 1 00:06:30 But for some reason, for some unknown reason, we won't do that for our.
Speaker 2 00:06:34 We don't do it for ourselves. I've never thought about it like that. But you're right. It's we we we're still allowed to baby ourselves, you know, like, when we need it instead of. Just saying snap out of it, you know, like.
Speaker 1 00:06:50 And snap out of it works. I mean, I use snap out of it to become a doctor and a stand up comic and a yoga teacher and all that. And I did, but but you know, Gordon Neufeld, my my teacher in developmental psychology, you know, he'd say to me, like, what cost? Like at what cost are we doing to to do these things? Now, I know we have to start. We have to keep going on the bus. We have to keep going to the store. Otherwise we our, our life gets more narrow and more narrow and more narrow. But can we develop kind of a kind of a body based connection, like for me, my younger self, my alarm sits in my solar plexus, kind of where my ribs meet in the front.
Speaker 1 00:07:30 Right. So whenever I get anxious and Pascal, the actor who I think he was in Game of Thrones or something like that, you'll see him when he's at the on the red carpet or whatever. He has his hand over that part of his. And he's he talks about it's like that's where my anxiety is. And I put my hand right over it. And can can we develop these kind of physical cues that sort of say, hey, you know, I've got you And and so much of it is unspoken. So much of it is not language based, it's feeling based. And I think all these therapies that use language all the time, I mean, I think they're helpful on some level, but it's really the feeling that we have to use to sort of overcome the feeling. You have to fix a feeling with a feeling you can't fix a feeling with a thinking.
Speaker 2 00:08:15 Go fix that feeling and that fear and a great my, my, my, my biggest thing is fear of anxiety. I told you that in the past, but it's just the I mean, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 00:08:30 It's fear. Fear of having more anxiety. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of people don't understand that. They're like, what's anxiety? How are you going to have fear of having more anxiety? And that's how I bring on more anxiety is fearing more anxiety.
Speaker 1 00:08:43 And that's exactly what panic attacks are. You know, they're so horrendous for people that the fear is of having another panic attack. And. And I have a clip on YouTube about how to deal with panic attack, which is essentially welcoming them. Like. And it's hard, it's very hard to do. But I learned how to do that. It's just welcoming it in because it's the resistance to the panic attack that just revs it up and makes it so much harder. It's almost like you've got this big wave of water that's going to that's going to over, you know, come over you. And if you keep holding it back and holding it back and holding it back, eventually it's going to completely devastate you. But if you let the water kind of rush over you in an uncomfortable fashion early on, and you don't let it build and build and build, it's just so much easier.
Speaker 1 00:09:31 But it's so hard to avoid that because you have that feeling that a panic attack is coming. I've been there many times and it's like, what do I do to avoid this? What do I do? What can I do? And the thing is, you can't.
Speaker 2 00:09:42 I'm not I'm not even going to lie to you. Like I have that feeling right now. But you just have to you have to soak it in.
Speaker 1 00:09:50 I think that's true, right? I think, you know, sometimes just being able to learn how to breathe properly, too, right?
Speaker 2 00:09:56 Just just make it a huge thing.
Speaker 1 00:09:57 Make a long exhale like that. Even right now, just like all of us. Just like.
Speaker 2 00:10:06 What I do on my videos.
Speaker 1 00:10:08 Yeah, well. But but it works, man. Like it?
Speaker 2 00:10:10 It works. It does work. It does work. I'm like slowly because, like, to be honest, like I've had so many opportunities to do podcasts with multiple people. Yeah. And I ignore them because I'm such a socially awkward.
Speaker 2 00:10:24 You wouldn't think so because I go live streaming every night. I go out in public and meet people, and but it's because I don't have to talk to them that long, right?
Speaker 1 00:10:32 It's and it's part of it. And I understand that because I remember when I was in my role as a doctor, I would be nervous, you know, like treating patients and that sort of stuff. But because I had this artificial role, I was kind of inflated in society that gave me that gave me the confidence to be able to do it. But talking to people one on one when I wasn't a doctor and like there's funny stories of me and my friends will say this all the time is like, I would get into the conversation that I was a doctor, even when it wasn't even relevant to the conversation like I would have. I would have to let people know that I was a doctor because that was my that was my safety zone, that was my security. But I realized it was just a role, you know, and it was just a role.
Speaker 1 00:11:16 And we can do these things, you know, and I think on some level, you know, being as popular as you are on Instagram, it gives you some confidence. It must.
Speaker 2 00:11:24 Oh yeah, of course I agree. It gives me confidence.
Speaker 1 00:11:28 Yeah. You know, it's just like that. That's my that's my mission, Ryan. And you have your mission to is to is to make anxiety something that is part of us but is not all of us. And I think when it flares up, it feels like it's all of us. And I think on some level, what happens to us is that we go back to our time, a time when we were younger and it was all of us. We were powerless on some level. We didn't have a whole lot of agency or ability to change. So we do go back to this feeling like like I this is all of me. I can't see anything. When I was a child, the anxiety was all over me. And I think because our amygdala, it never forgets.
Speaker 1 00:12:11 I think when we go into that anxious state, we age, regress, like when we get into a really bad anxiety state. I think we turn into like a six year old and and we go through the same, the same kind of mental struggles we did as a six year old. And we don't even realize that we're adults now because it's taken us so deep and we're so unaware of everything else in our environment that when you become aware that you can actually be a kind, benevolent force to that six year old, you can actually be the adult. Now that that six year old so badly needed back then. And like I said, use carrots. Help them along. And then you develop this this relationship with, you know, your adult self and your younger and your child self. And I always say that anxiety is a separation of your adult self from your child self and from your mind, from your body. The adult doesn't want to go back to the child because the child holds all their pain like bullying, shame, loss, abuse, abandonment.
Speaker 1 00:13:13 But, but and the and the adult, leaves the child alone. The child is saying that the adult in you like, please help me. And you're going like that child coming up to you in the store. You're like pushing them away. Like, no, I don't want to deal with your pain right now. And of course, that just makes them even more anxious. So it's being, you know, and just what I love about your stuff is that you just make it so real for people. It's like, that's exactly how I feel. And allow them to and see that, you know, you're quite successful on Instagram. You've done quite well. Not that that's, you know, the be all and end all. But despite this anxiety, you've done extremely well.
Speaker 2 00:13:57 And that. And that should show anybody I mean definitely anybody watching. I mean, you can you can do anything whether your mind is telling you not to, but whether your mind is fighting you. I mean, with that anxiety with with the depression, I mean, you just have to believe in yourself, even with this, this fear I have daily still.
Speaker 2 00:14:21 Yeah. Even with the anxiety I have daily, you know, you can still go for your goals. That's what I'm getting at. And whatever that is you want, you might want to be an artist. I've always wanted to be viral, but I never thought like, ever since. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted to be. I wanted to be viral. Yeah. And I tried everything. I tried fake cars, fake planes. And then I just was like, you know, I'm just going to start looking like me. And half the people call me, I look homeless. I'm like, well, that's me. That's me. That's who I am. I dress here, I got anxiety, and I'm gonna speak what's on my mind for the day.
Speaker 1 00:15:02 So, Donna, what kind of relationship do you and Ryan have?
Speaker 4 00:15:04 Oh, we go back.
Speaker 2 00:15:05 We go.
Speaker 4 00:15:06 Back born.
Speaker 1 00:15:07 Okay.
Speaker 4 00:15:08 That makes me my sister. Robin was, took care of him from the time dreamer brought him home until, he's been around us now.
Speaker 2 00:15:19 And dream is my.
Speaker 4 00:15:20 Mom, and.
Speaker 2 00:15:20 Yeah, so I lived. I actually just moved off their property maybe a week or two weeks ago, but, I've lived in this house with them through all my alcoholism. a good chunk of my alcoholism. they saw me suffering with that. They knew I was suffering. They've seen me at my. Are you and Robin. I've seen me at my lowest. even when I had fallouts with my parents, they were always still here for me. and I don't think you realize how many people I'm reaching. And that's that's the crazy thing about social media is you never know who you might touch. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:16:03 Well, that's the party.
Speaker 1 00:16:05 Yeah, absolutely. And it's so important to allow people to find their way to, you know, we can we can only do so much. And I think so, so much of addiction is this. I believe that what addiction does is it makes us feel connected to ourselves. So when we have alcohol, when we have drugs, that's the only time we actually make allow ourselves to feel connected to ourselves.
Speaker 1 00:16:33 And that's what I say. It's almost like like liquid love. And I know that sounds really, really weird, but addiction doesn't come out of nowhere, right? Addiction is is is self. It's self-medication is what it is. It's like I feel this complete separation from myself and others. But when I take this drug, you know, when people talk about heroin and that kind of thing, when I take this drug, I feel this warm, kind of loving hug from, like a maternal or paternal figure. And that's addictive, you know? So it's hard to get that in the world if you haven't shown it to yourself and you haven't treated yourself well, because then the whole addiction thing is like, then you start bringing yourself down and, and, you know, castigating yourself because you've got this addiction, which of course separates you from yourself more, which of course makes you want to drink more. So it all loops on itself.
Speaker 2 00:17:30 Exactly, exactly. And that's how it was. It was daily.
Speaker 2 00:17:33 It was hourly. It was counting on that to want to just feel loved, I guess, and wanting to feel human and like people ask me all the time, still, like, do you suffer with cravings? I don't suffer with cravings. I've been sober for years now and yeah, a drink would help. I, I, I, I tell people that all the time.
Speaker 1 00:17:58 Like the oddest thing.
Speaker 2 00:17:59 Yeah I, I would love a Jack and Coke. Right now I'm four years sober. But look at how crappy my life was when I was drinking. And look at how even if you're struggling with your mental health still, and even though the liquid love would take away the anxiety for a few hours, look at what you can do when you get on a schedule and you cut out that that toxicity you're putting into your body. and it's hard and it's hard.
Speaker 1 00:18:29 It is hard, especially the early stages, you know, that's that's why it's almost like there's this I call this thing the ego dragon, right? This, this omnipotent figure that we create when we're really young to protect us.
Speaker 1 00:18:41 And on some level, you know, when you take alcohol, you get a boost of what we call Gaba in the brain. And Gaba is an inhibitory neurochemical, so it basically makes us feel relaxed. So of course you're going to keep wanting that that same thing, especially if you don't have it otherwise. Right. And then it's and then it's like making the decision. And then of course your life gets, you know, worse and worse and worse because the chemical doesn't actually work in the long term. So how was it that you managed to get yourself off of alcohol?
Speaker 2 00:19:15 My my my mom knew I started having a problem in college. I started doing inpatient. I lied to them all. I, I, I think I finished inpatient and record time and they're like, oh my gosh. Wow. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm drinking the whole time still, right. then I mean, a lot there's a lot of hiccups in the story, but I went to rehab, an inpatient rehab for eight months.
Speaker 1 00:19:43 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:19:44 I plan my relapse and rehab, though. I got out, I got out, I can't. I came and started living with y'all. After rehab, and I stayed sober for two months and thought I'd be good to go to a concert and drink. And that same night I ended up in a cop car. I went to jail. I had a DUI. I had a hit and run. I hit a person. and that's what the court issued me was to go to, rehab. there was there was there was there was no injuries. Thank the Lord with the hit and run. Yeah. but that made me go to rehab. And you would think that would be a brain kicker to stop drinking right there. But like I said, I pre-planned my relapse already. And then I got out, came here, started drinking again, and I after like a year, I was like, I woke up outside and and there Pigpen and like 30 degree weather. And I remember it was a night I like ran out of booze.
Speaker 2 00:20:41 I was drinking hand sanitizer. And I woke up and I was like, I'm done. Like, I was like, I called my two stepbrothers and I was like, put me in detox for the weekend and I'm done. I don't need rehab. I don't need this. I don't need A.A. like. And from there, that's just when my journey with with God has helped me. I'm a Christian. or prayer has helped me where just being honest with myself has helped me.
Speaker 1 00:21:10 Yeah, I think being honest with yourself is is a big deal. Do you want to say something there? Donna?
Speaker 4 00:21:14 Well, the support that basically that I give to him is the prayer time. And he knows that I pray for him when he's not around or he's out doing whatever, and that God can take care of that inner man and, strengthen him and, and better equip him to, or even to share the things that he does, that it'll help others.
Speaker 2 00:21:38 I affirm, like I do, I do pray for people like, I don't care what religion you are, but I feel like you have to have a higher power.
Speaker 2 00:21:48 You have to believe in something.
Speaker 1 00:21:50 I think a lot of what happens when you get traumatized as a child is that you lose your faith in the world. You lose your faith that the world is a safe place. And then to have this. And I do think that biologically we are wired to worship. We're seeing more and more stuff in neuroscience that shows there's parts of our brain that are very dedicated to worship, and we do it with, you know, rock bands and, you know, we have it already. It's just the matter of, of can we worship something and, and put our faith in something. And I think so much of, of our faith has been dashed. especially in the last sort of ten years or so, just by the fact that the world is not cooperating and in so many different ways. So we use that as an excuse like, okay, well, I guess there is no supreme beam. There is no higher. There is no higher being. But the higher being is in all of us.
Speaker 1 00:22:48 And it's a matter of, you know, making the intention. And I think prayer is basically just intention. I mean, you can make an intention to be the highest version of yourself. You may fail most of the time, but if you have that attention, you can have this sort of structure that there is something there. It isn't all. And I think the other thing is that we feel it's all up to us, you know, like everything is up to me. And I think that's such a heavy burden to bear. that, that it's really difficult, I think, for people, especially people with anxiety, to believe that, hey, I have to control everything because I'm anxious and and everything is up to me. It's a bad combination.
Speaker 2 00:23:28 Yeah, it's a bad combination. And that's. And that's one thing I, you know, I admit I do struggle with, like.
Speaker 1 00:23:34 And you know what, Brian? I think your prayers are your posts. They are. You know, I think that, you know, when you see it.
Speaker 1 00:23:41 And I think that's why people are gravitated towards you so much, because they feel the genuine nature of that, that intention and that prayer to be connected to someone else. Because, you know, we live in a society now where people aren't valued for being people so much. And this is just my opinion. People are just valued for the money that they have. And like, how can I make, you know, hey, you see these guys on TV or Instagram? I was like, you got to get up at 5 a.m. in the morning, like half an hour before you go to bed and you work, work, work and make sure that you do this and do this sales funnel and make this and make these calls and make it just it seems so. It seems so hollow and pointless. And I know people who have a lot of money and most of them aren't that happy. So there is this feeling, you know, that, you know, this sort of left brain, kind of analytical part of the left part of our brain is kind of like the analytical part of the brain.
Speaker 1 00:24:38 And the right part of the brain is kind of like the feeling part of the brain. So in our society, we lean so heavily on this, make money, analyze, left part of our brain and we lose feeling and we lose this, this sense that that we we are divine in so many ways. And and when we lose that definitive divinity, we can act in ways that aren't very nice to each other.
Speaker 2 00:25:03 Yeah, I get I get why it's addicting and but it will consume you and it will change you into a different person. I've watched it happen in front of my eyes and I'm and I, I mean, I, I admit I still struggle with it, but I've watched it changed so many people and like, money is the devil and but you need it. It can be, can be.
Speaker 1 00:25:28 It's a it's an energy. You know, money is an energy. And I think that people ascribe this feeling like, oh, if I have this amount of money that I'm going to be happy.
Speaker 1 00:25:38 And people, you know, people think they're.
Speaker 2 00:25:41 Going to be right now.
Speaker 1 00:25:42 No it's not. Yeah. It's it's people. They don't want things. They basically want the feeling that they will have when they have those things. And even that feeling is fleeting. So it's really understanding that, you know, creating content that actually connects with and soothes people and, you know, in reverse. You know, you're getting fed by what you're creating. And it's in this sort of circular way, which is kind of what prayer is in a lot of ways. It's sort of this there's no beginning, there's no end. And, and you just stay in this kind of cycle or circle and, and in that it provides you with the sense that there is it isn't this isn't all there is. You know, there is this sense that that, you know, we are greater. The beings that we are are greater than what we perceive we are. And you know. And you're living proof of that, right? Like, you're, you know, you pulled yourself back from.
Speaker 4 00:26:45 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:26:46 From hell essentially.
Speaker 2 00:26:50 I agree, I mean, that like hell has an exit and you just got to be it, does it? Hell has an exit. I've learned, for me at least. And I know for many people because I see them struggling. But you're going to have to struggle more, and you're gonna have to hit rock bottom, and then you're going to have to find that rock bottom that you didn't even know existed after rock bottom to actually be like, I want to pull myself out of here now.
Speaker 1 00:27:17 Yeah, it has to come from you, right? It has to come from us. Because I see people who some of my friends who haven't made it, you know, and it was just like, you know, sad. Yeah, it is sad. But, you know, I always have I always have this sort of philosophical thing like, that was their time, right? That was, you know, and then we try and protect our children. We try and protect, you know, people from addiction and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 00:27:40 But like we said, they have to make the decision, you know? And as a physician, I would see this in families all the time. Somebody was addicted to, you know, opioids or alcohol or whatever. And the family would go through these horrendous things trying to help them. And like you said you would, you're planning you're planning your exit from rehab.
Speaker 2 00:28:02 Exactly. You're going you're you could send whoever you want to rehab. Rehabs. Rehab did help me, in my opinion. Yeah, after I wanted it. I've learned things in rehab, but like, a lot of people get mad at me when I say this, but I'll say it with my wholeheartedly. AA is a great thing. Rehab is a great thing, in a is a great thing. But if you can figure out a way without needing it there, there is a way, because I've done it. Yeah. And it's possible. Bull. I get why, I get why a a and n a is a big thing.
Speaker 2 00:28:41 But around around my neck of the woods, it's all 80 year olds telling war stories when they were drinking. And who? Who the hell wants to hear it?
Speaker 1 00:28:51 Well, you have to be, you know, it has to be in a group that you're related, you relate to. You know, I had a friend here, and, he was a realtor, and, and he got into a group of alcoholic realtors, and those guys saw themselves through, like, 40 years because they felt they felt a connection to each other. They could feel the common commonality. But like I said, if you go to AA meeting and it's a bunch of 80 year olds telling war stories, you just you're already feeling alone, right? You're already feeling alone. And then I go into this meeting where I'm just going to feel more like an outsider. It's like, no, that doesn't work now, you know, AA and all that. I think the the what heals people is the human connection in there and the ability to believe.
Speaker 2 00:29:35 In it you need.
Speaker 1 00:29:36 And the ability to believe in.
Speaker 2 00:29:38 It. You got to believe in it. And that's another thing that's worse than my anxiety in the past is. Isolating myself for so long and just even when I was sober be like being sober, living in that camper on your on y'all's property, and just focusing on videos and streaming and isolating myself from any friends here. Just from seeing y'all just just focusing on work and it'll tear you apart. Oh, you got you. You got to make that you like. You got to make that human interaction. And I told my psychiatrist, he called me, a few weeks ago. I went to New York in December, and this is when my anxiety was really bad. And we played around with my medication, and he called me after the trip. He goes, how the trip go? I said, great. And I was like, I get back to Florida now. And I was like, my anxiety is ten times worse. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:30:40 And, and I and I know what it is. It's my days were extremely busy and I was surrounded by people 24. And I enjoy and I like I enjoyed it. I was anxious, but I enjoyed it. Yeah. And that's the trick you need to you need to surround yourself with humans.
Speaker 1 00:31:03 And go outside of that comfort zone. Right. And and do it with a carrot instead of like, I have to do this. It's like, okay, what's the what's the bonus? Because as we talked about at the start of this, so we have this thing called the social engagement system. So like I said, eye contact tone of voice, which is kind of like, you know, hey, you know, and you're great at this. The tone of voice and then the prosody of voice, which is like if the lilting quality is like. And then I did this and then we did that. And so and then the facial expressions and the body language. So these are things like when you're having lunch with a friend and they're a really good friend.
Speaker 1 00:31:37 All this stuff just flows naturally, right? You don't have to think like, I've got to make eye contact. It just happens. But when you're in this sort of anxious state, when there's all this adrenaline and cortisol running around in your system, that part of your brain, that social part of your brain gets shut off. So it's like somebody, you know, going to ask you to, to to go curling. You know, there's a curling tournament I want you to. It's like I'm never curl before. I'm not gonna I'm not going to be crazy about going to a curling tournament. Right. So if you're not good at something, you're going to avoid it. So if we're not, if we don't have the software for for human connection, we're going to resist human connection. And then we isolate ourselves even more and then we get even more lonely. And then it just it just always does. So. And the other thing I was going to add on to that too, is that, you know, our own homes are often a cue for anxiety because we've spent most of our time in this environment, or a lot of our time in this environment.
Speaker 1 00:32:37 Being anxious. So our brains are just make sense machines. So it says, okay, well, I'm in my office. I'm just going to get anxious because that's what I do here. But when you're in a totally different environment that isn't there anymore.
Speaker 2 00:32:50 Now it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 00:32:52 Yeah, there's a lot of uncertainty in a new environment. So the uncertainty can kind of come up and, you know, work up your anxiety as well. So it's like, how can how can we be more. And that's the thing about anxiety. It's like, how can I be more connected? And here's the thing. Like when you first ask, make a bid for a connection from someone, it's hard to do. It's really hard to do. But if you know that you're going to be safe, like I don't say, go up to somebody on the street, but but if you know that there's they're a safe person. It's like, look, I'm feeling really kind of anxious or alarmed today.
Speaker 1 00:33:28 I like the term alarm instead of anxious. I'm feeling really alarmed today. You know, can I just get a hug, a quick hug from you and that kind of stuff?
Speaker 4 00:33:35 And it makes.
Speaker 1 00:33:35 Such a.
Speaker 4 00:33:36 Difference.
Speaker 1 00:33:37 It does. It does. But just to ask for it is huge though. Like, that's because we're so isolated and our social engagement system gets shut off. So we don't have the software to be engaged in the first place, but we know we need it all.
Speaker 2 00:33:51 And that's what that's I think I said it kind of in the beginning, but that's what I've always wanted was and when I was in addiction and when I was struggling was I wanted one of these influencers to notice me and give me hope. Yeah, no one did. And so until I hit half a million followers on Instagram, I was still painting houses and stuff. I'd get up two hours early and reply to every single DM. I'd voice message people. And I've had people message me like, they'll pop up, like randomly because I still have a general box and.
Speaker 2 00:34:26 Right. And they'll message me in like two years later. I just got a message and like somebody said, your voice message two years ago saved me and I was just like, that's what I needed when I was in addiction. I'm a normal person and I just want to help people. But coming from somebody else's eyes that are struggling, that are in their house right now with 17 followers and just don't know what to do with their life. You're a big deal. I'm a big deal to them. And that's how I looked at these other people. They're a big deal and I wanted comfort from them. Yeah, and that's what I that's always going to be. The goal here is to comfort everyone.
Speaker 1 00:35:08 And, you know, when you worship in a way you're not alone, right? So I think when you answer everyone, you wanted to make sure that nobody felt like they were alone. And I think you had to go through your own, you know, dark night of the soul of exactly that.
Speaker 1 00:35:26 Of being alone. And sometimes people need that being Aloneness to make the changes in their life. So I would say both. I would say both. It's like, yeah, when you help other people, that's great. But sometimes they have to hit the wall with their loneliness before they do something about it. So what I would say in my little, you know, Doctor Kennedy kind of helping you, Ryan, is that is that, you know, you can't help everybody. And and if you try, you're only going to make yourself more lonely and not be as valuable to us as you already are. So sometimes, and like I said, some people they have everyone has their own path. Everyone has their own path. Like I said, I've had friends that you know aren't here anymore because, you know, but that's their path and there's only so much I think we helpers can do. And I think we want to do more. but we have to watch, you know, and that's what I tell myself too, is that is that there's only so much you can do.
Speaker 1 00:36:27 And it's the old, you know, when the teacher is ready, the student or the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And people have to want it. You know, we have this saying in, sort of mental health that you can't want it more than the patient does, right?
Speaker 2 00:36:41 They have to.
Speaker 1 00:36:41 Do it themselves.
Speaker 2 00:36:42 Right. And I say that and I say the same thing about I like that, but I say the same thing about addiction. You can't force somebody. They gotta want to be sober. You can't make them sober. Like I have people ask me all the time, how can I help my brother? How can I help my sister? How can I help my. How can I help my mom? You can't. Yeah. You can't, you can't. You you can. You can hide everything in the house. You can do this. You can do that. But guess what? You're not going to help them.
Speaker 1 00:37:10 And that's. And that's the truth.
Speaker 1 00:37:13 That's just.
Speaker 2 00:37:14 The truth. You got to want it for yourself. You want. You got to want to change for yourself.
Speaker 1 00:37:19 That's what you did.
Speaker 2 00:37:22 That's what you did.
Speaker 1 00:37:23 Me, too. Yeah. Thanks, Ryan. I really appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2 00:37:28 Hey. I appreciate you having me, doctor. Russ.
